Wolf89 · Jun 28, 2005, 05:53 AM // 05:53

I saw an auction on an axe and it said that the axe ignored armor and Ive seen people say composite bows have armor penetration if this is true which sword/hammer/axes/bows have armor penetration or ignore armor all together.

Eclair · Jun 28, 2005, 06:22 AM // 06:22

There's a sundering prefix that gives you 10% armor penetration. However, it is a chance activated attribute, and the max is 10% I think. So, for every 10 hits, 1 hit will activate the 10% armor penetration...which effectively gives you a 1% armor penetration attribute over long periods of time...

No weapons have an inherent armor penetration mod, at least not that I know of.

EmperorTippy · Jun 28, 2005, 07:17 AM // 07:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eclair

There's a sundering prefix that gives you 10% armor penetration. However, it is a chance activated attribute, and the max is 10% I think. So, for every 10 hits, 1 hit will activate the 10% armor penetration...which effectively gives you a 1% armor penetration attribute over long periods of time...

No weapons have an inherent armor penetration mod, at least not that I know of.

I thought it was 10% of the time your hit would compleatly ingore armor not 10% of the armor but 100% of it. As in every 10th hit was caculated as if the enemy had no armor on.

Hell Marauder · Jun 28, 2005, 07:19 AM // 07:19

I think horn bow has 10% penetration, which some early hammers or weapons have too. But its re-firing rate is painfully slow.

Blahofstars · Jun 28, 2005, 07:19 AM // 07:19

No, sundering gives a 10% armor penetration. It's usually followed by a second % (atleast it should be) that gives the chance of this armor penetration to take effect.

EmperorTippy · Jun 28, 2005, 07:58 AM // 07:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blahofstars

No, sundering gives a 10% armor penetration. It's usually followed by a second % (atleast it should be) that gives the chance of this armor penetration to take effect.

O thanks I'm usally a caster and don't really use the weapon I have equiped except for the mods. I swith between the 2 staffs I have. One is +60 health (Hale+Fortitude) and my energy increasing one

Tetris L · Jun 28, 2005, 10:04 AM // 10:04

Holy, Shadow and Chaos damage are supposed to ignore ALL armor. Yes, that's 100% armor penetration.

I'm not 100% sure though if that goes only for spells or also for wands/staffs of these types.

hassoon · Jun 28, 2005, 10:30 AM // 10:30

The ignore armor thing like vampiric effects etc,are much ado about nothing the overall effect on targets etc is negligible.

Myodato · Jun 28, 2005, 11:01 AM // 11:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tetris L

Holy, Shadow and Chaos damage are supposed to ignore ALL armor. Yes, that's 100% armor penetration.

I'm not 100% sure though if that goes only for spells or also for wands/staffs of these types.

That would make Judge's Insight the silliest skill in the game, considering that it converts all damage to Holy Damage, it's +20% armour penetration would suddenly be rather redundant.

There are some spells that seem to completely ignore armour (Balth's Aura), but weapon damage definitely does not. Considering that most armours have some sort of +Al vs phys/ele damage though, one of the above types is still preferable.

Keure · Jun 28, 2005, 11:15 AM // 11:15

"Ignore armor" is not equal to 100% armor penetration. Ignore armor merely treats the target as if he/she had 60 AL, all the time, while 100% armor penetration would mean that the target would have 0 AL.

Pharalon · Jun 28, 2005, 11:52 AM // 11:52

Ivory/Horn/Shadow bows all have an inherent 10%AP. They're the only weapons to possess this mod inherently AFAIK. No weapon ignores armor. No damage type ignores armor. Skills that do shadow/holy/chaos damage ignore armor, which treats the target as having 60AL, as well as cancelling the damage modifiers you get through level differences.

Carinae · Jun 28, 2005, 02:00 PM // 14:00

Negative, you are wrong. Life-Stealing spells *completely* igore armor. If the life-steal spell says it does 60 damage, it does 60 damage... to any target, regardless of armor.

Jelloblimp · Jun 28, 2005, 02:09 PM // 14:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carinae Dragonblood

Negative, you are wrong. Life-Stealing spells *completely* igore armor. If the life-steal spell says it does 60 damage, it does 60 damage... to any target, regardless of armor.

That means the target is counted as having 60AL, with 0 (zero)AL you would do MORE damage than specified.
use this calc for doing examples
Base damage 60, AL 0 = Result: Target takes 169.71 damage.
Base damage 60, AL 60 = Result: Target takes 60 damage.

Edit: Not sure if leech/steal life is considered damage, does it do more damage/effect against warriors during healing signet/flurry?

Nash · Jun 28, 2005, 02:31 PM // 14:31

As usual, people post without knowledge.

Guess I will quote myself:
60 AL (Armor Level) is considered normal and so damage values in skill descriptions is against a target with 60 AL against the damage type. With less than 60 AL, target will take more damage than listed, and with more AL, target will take less.

Ignoring armor is in no way armor penetration. It's just doing the damage listed. In other words, your target is considered to have 60 AL for that spell.

100% armor penetration (impossible to achieve) would mean the target is considered to have 0 AL. A target with 0 AL will take 283% damage from anything that doesn't ignore armor.

Tetris L · Jun 28, 2005, 02:44 PM // 14:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Myodato

That would make Judge's Insight the silliest skill in the game, considering that it converts all damage to Holy Damage, it's +20% armour penetration would suddenly be rather redundant.

Doh, that was a quick and easy way to proof me wrong.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keure

"Ignore armor" is not equal to 100% armor penetration. Ignore armor merely treats the target as if he/she had 60 AL, all the time, while 100% armor penetration would mean that the target would have 0 AL.

Okay okay, I stand corrected.

ShinJin Kahn · Jul 18, 2005, 07:28 PM // 19:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jelloblimp

Edit: Not sure if leech/steal life is considered damage, does it do more damage/effect against warriors during healing signet/flurry?

I think you mean frenzy, flurry has no receive damage modifiers in it, frenzy on the other hand does, " you take double damage" which again, has nothing to do with armour, all it means is when you receive damage, however much it is, you take twice that amount.

But still, confusion for me surrounds judges insight.

Let me get this straight, it dose holy damage so it counts everyone as having 60 armour? (base rate for characters in GW), does that mean it completly ignores any armour you are wearing and it's bonus's? (+6 armour v physical and such like?) or does it just ignore the standad armour and you get to keep the bonus.

Also the extra 20% penitration you get, does that count towards the remaining base rate of 60?, giving them -12 armor? (48), or is that complete penitration 20% of the time?.

Silmor · Jul 18, 2005, 07:44 PM // 19:44

Armor penetration means you will damage the target as if its armor level was lower than it actually is.

Armor ignoring means you will simply do the amount of damage listed - the armor level or experience level of your target does not affect your damage.

No damage type has inherent armor-ignoring or armor-penetrating properties. Certain skills cause armor-ignoring or armor-penetrating damage, but this is unrelated to the damage type. Just because most skills that inflict holy damage happen to also ignore armor, people tend to assume holy damage means armor ignoring damage, but this is nonsense.

The thing with Judge's Insight is the following: first off, your attacks do holy damage. This means protection vs. Physical (e.g. warrior armor) is ineffective against it, but protection vs. Elemental (e.g. ranger armor) is also ineffective against it, and it will cause double damage on targets especially weak vs. holy damage (undead, necrotic armor). The second part is that each attack gets a cumulative 20% armor penetration, which works in the same way as armor penetration always does - your attack will damage the opponent as if its armor level was lower than it actually is.

Archaeus · Jul 18, 2005, 07:52 PM // 19:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShinJin Kahn

I think you mean frenzy, flurry has no receive damage modifiers in it, frenzy on the other hand does, " you take double damage" which again, has nothing to do with armour, all it means is when you receive damage, however much it is, you take twice that amount.

But still, confusion for me surrounds judges insight.

Let me get this straight, it dose holy damage so it counts everyone as having 60 armour? (base rate for characters in GW), does that mean it completly ignores any armour you are wearing and it's bonus's? (+6 armour v physical and such like?) or does it just ignore the standad armour and you get to keep the bonus.

Also the extra 20% penitration you get, does that count towards the remaining base rate of 60?, giving them -12 armor? (48), or is that complete penitration 20% of the time?.

Alright, here's my theory about Judge's Insight. Although normally Holy damage would ignore armor (symbol of wrath, balthasar's aura, etc.), Judge's Insight is another story. When you make that ally deal holy damage, it's simply converting their damage to a different type and _not_ making them ignore armor.

Ok, let's say you cast Judge's Insight on a ranger with bow that uses a flaming bow string. The fire damage he was doing with his bow is now Holy damage, meaning that if he was to, say, attack another ranger who was wearing Druid's armor (which is 70 overall AL, +30 AL vs. elemental attacks), his fire-turned-holy damage would _not_ get the +30 AL vs. elementals penalty from the target's Druid's armor, because the damage is no longer fire - it's holy, which is not an element. That means the target would have 70 AL vs. your target ally ranger's attacks, instead of 70+30. On top of that, his attacks would have +20% armor penetration.

Think of Judge's Insight as making an ally deal a weakened form of holy damage. Normal holy damage _ignores_ armor (symbol, aura, etc.), but this spell makes them _penetrate_ armor while dealing a different type of damage.

Also, remember that all undead mobs take double damage when they recieve holy damage. So if you're a smiting/axe W/Mo, you can make your axe attacks deal more than double damage (because of the added penetration) to undead mobs. It makes you own in early Kryta

Jun 28, 2005, 05:53 AM // 05:53	#1
Wolf89 Krytan Explorer Join Date: Apr 2005	Which Weapons Ignore Or Have Armor Penetration On Their Own I saw an auction on an axe and it said that the axe ignored armor and Ive seen people say composite bows have armor penetration if this is true which sword/hammer/axes/bows have armor penetration or ignore armor all together.

Jun 28, 2005, 06:22 AM // 06:22	#2
Eclair Desert Nomad Join Date: Apr 2005	There's a sundering prefix that gives you 10% armor penetration. However, it is a chance activated attribute, and the max is 10% I think. So, for every 10 hits, 1 hit will activate the 10% armor penetration...which effectively gives you a 1% armor penetration attribute over long periods of time... No weapons have an inherent armor penetration mod, at least not that I know of.

Jun 28, 2005, 07:19 AM // 07:19	#4
Hell Marauder Krytan Explorer Join Date: May 2005	I think horn bow has 10% penetration, which some early hammers or weapons have too. But its re-firing rate is painfully slow.

Jun 28, 2005, 07:19 AM // 07:19	#5
Blahofstars Ascalonian Squire Join Date: Jun 2005 Profession: R/Mo	No, sundering gives a 10% armor penetration. It's usually followed by a second % (atleast it should be) that gives the chance of this armor penetration to take effect.

Jun 28, 2005, 10:04 AM // 10:04	#7
Tetris L Jungle Guide Join Date: May 2005 Location: Germany Guild: Servants of Fortuna	Holy, Shadow and Chaos damage are supposed to ignore ALL armor. Yes, that's 100% armor penetration. I'm not 100% sure though if that goes only for spells or also for wands/staffs of these types.

Jun 28, 2005, 10:30 AM // 10:30	#8
hassoon Frost Gate Guardian Join Date: Apr 2005	The ignore armor thing like vampiric effects etc,are much ado about nothing the overall effect on targets etc is negligible.

Jun 28, 2005, 11:15 AM // 11:15	#10
Keure Frost Gate Guardian Join Date: May 2005	"Ignore armor" is not equal to 100% armor penetration. Ignore armor merely treats the target as if he/she had 60 AL, all the time, while 100% armor penetration would mean that the target would have 0 AL.

Jun 28, 2005, 11:52 AM // 11:52	#11
Pharalon Beta Tester Join Date: Jan 2005 Guild: Carebear Club	Ivory/Horn/Shadow bows all have an inherent 10%AP. They're the only weapons to possess this mod inherently AFAIK. No weapon ignores armor. No damage type ignores armor. Skills that do shadow/holy/chaos damage ignore armor, which treats the target as having 60AL, as well as cancelling the damage modifiers you get through level differences.

Jun 28, 2005, 02:00 PM // 14:00	#12
Carinae Forge Runner Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Inside Guild: Fifteen Over Fifty [Rare]	Negative, you are wrong. Life-Stealing spells completely igore armor. If the life-steal spell says it does 60 damage, it does 60 damage... to any target, regardless of armor.

Jun 28, 2005, 02:31 PM // 14:31	#14
Nash Wilds Pathfinder Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Sweden Guild: The Cornerstone	As usual, people post without knowledge. Guess I will quote myself: 60 AL (Armor Level) is considered normal and so damage values in skill descriptions is against a target with 60 AL against the damage type. With less than 60 AL, target will take more damage than listed, and with more AL, target will take less. Ignoring armor is in no way armor penetration. It's just doing the damage listed. In other words, your target is considered to have 60 AL for that spell. 100% armor penetration (impossible to achieve) would mean the target is considered to have 0 AL. A target with 0 AL will take 283% damage from anything that doesn't ignore armor.

Jul 18, 2005, 07:44 PM // 19:44	#17
Silmor Wilds Pathfinder Join Date: Mar 2005	Armor penetration means you will damage the target as if its armor level was lower than it actually is. Armor ignoring means you will simply do the amount of damage listed - the armor level or experience level of your target does not affect your damage. No damage type has inherent armor-ignoring or armor-penetrating properties. Certain skills cause armor-ignoring or armor-penetrating damage, but this is unrelated to the damage type. Just because most skills that inflict holy damage happen to also ignore armor, people tend to assume holy damage means armor ignoring damage, but this is nonsense. The thing with Judge's Insight is the following: first off, your attacks do holy damage. This means protection vs. Physical (e.g. warrior armor) is ineffective against it, but protection vs. Elemental (e.g. ranger armor) is also ineffective against it, and it will cause double damage on targets especially weak vs. holy damage (undead, necrotic armor). The second part is that each attack gets a cumulative 20% armor penetration, which works in the same way as armor penetration always does - your attack will damage the opponent as if its armor level was lower than it actually is.